1GN.ORG 1GN.ORG
get yer n00b on
 
 Watched TopicsWatched Topics   FAQFAQ  Forum RulesForum Rules   SearchSearch   MemberlistMemberlist   UsergroupsUsergroups   RegisterRegister 
 GarageGarage   1/4 Mile Table1/4 Mile Table   ProfileProfile   Log in to check your private messagesLog in to check your private messages   Log inLog in 

AutoX/Road Racing with no P/S??!!

Goto page 1, 2  Next
 
Post new topic   Reply to topic    1GN.ORG Forum Index -> AutoX / Road Course
View previous topic :: View next topic  
Author Message
keeders08
Suspension Nut!!
1GN Registrant


Age: 30
Joined: 15 Jun 2008
Posts: 515
Location: Pittsburgh Area(Connellsville), Pa

1995 Dodge Neon Sport

PostPosted: Thu Jun 04, 2009 12:48 pm    Post subject: AutoX/Road Racing with no P/S??!! Reply with quote

AutoX/Road Racing with no P/S...? Anyone ever do it on the regular or atleast tried it? Is it hard? Easier possibly? too much effort? lol
Someone give me some feedback on this. Shocked
_________________
KEEDY/"KEEDERS"/"KUTTER"


::95 Sprt Coupe::

::04 Gray Neon SXT::
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message Send e-mail Visit poster's website AIM Address
Doug95neon
1GN Registrant


Age: 39
Joined: 30 May 2009
Posts: 68
Location: Morrisville, NC


PostPosted: Thu Jun 04, 2009 1:42 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Not that much fun for auto-x. Remember there's lots of steering input involved and that includes hairpin turns/pivot cones where steering is SSSSsssoooooo nice to have. I threw a belt off on course once and it was kind of exciting. Like fighting a big fish on a little pole.

Road course may not be too bad though as the turns tend to be easier and you maintain more speed through it.

Proper deletion while keeping the p/s gear would involve routing the hoses back to each other. You may want to use more than "just enough for the job" as you still create heat in the system. Draining the fluid just ends up seizing the gear after a while.

Try some searching around I think some guys run a steering gear off of a shadow or something. The gear ratio is even shorter making it better than even the mopar performance.
_________________
I stayed at a Holiday Inn Express last night, I HAVE to be right.

My Project thread: Here
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message  
keeders08
Suspension Nut!!
1GN Registrant


Age: 30
Joined: 15 Jun 2008
Posts: 515
Location: Pittsburgh Area(Connellsville), Pa

1995 Dodge Neon Sport

PostPosted: Fri Jun 05, 2009 12:20 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Doug95neon wrote:
Not that much fun for auto-x. Remember there's lots of steering input involved and that includes hairpin turns/pivot cones where steering is SSSSsssoooooo nice to have. I threw a belt off on course once and it was kind of exciting. Like fighting a big fish on a little pole.

Road course may not be too bad though as the turns tend to be easier and you maintain more speed through it.

Proper deletion while keeping the p/s gear would involve routing the hoses back to each other. You may want to use more than "just enough for the job" as you still create heat in the system. Draining the fluid just ends up seizing the gear after a while.

Try some searching around I think some guys run a steering gear off of a shadow or something. The gear ratio is even shorter making it better than even the mopar performance.


VERY INFORMITIVE...Thanks alot dood! Very Happy
_________________
KEEDY/"KEEDERS"/"KUTTER"


::95 Sprt Coupe::

::04 Gray Neon SXT::
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message Send e-mail Visit poster's website AIM Address
mtownneon
1GN Registrant


Age: 52
Joined: 09 Mar 2007
Posts: 32
Location: Morristown Indiana


PostPosted: Fri Jun 05, 2009 6:11 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Road racing with the power steering disconnected is not a big deal, the only thing you notice is more pronounced feedback through the steering wheel (not necassarily a bad thing).

As for autoXing, that's a different story; as has been said already, combine the lack of power assist with low speed quick manuvers and it's a real pain. I auto-Xed one of our ITA Neons last year with the power steering disconnected and did miserably and had no fun doing it.
_________________
Indy Region SCCA
#9 ITA Neon Coupe
2009 IndySCCA Assistant Regional Executive and Solo Co-Chair

www.performancedrivenllc.com
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message  
keeders08
Suspension Nut!!
1GN Registrant


Age: 30
Joined: 15 Jun 2008
Posts: 515
Location: Pittsburgh Area(Connellsville), Pa

1995 Dodge Neon Sport

PostPosted: Fri Jun 05, 2009 1:21 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

mtownneon wrote:
Road racing with the power steering disconnected is not a big deal, the only thing you notice is more pronounced feedback through the steering wheel (not necassarily a bad thing).

As for autoXing, that's a different story; as has been said already, combine the lack of power assist with low speed quick manuvers and it's a real pain. I auto-Xed one of our ITA Neons last year with the power steering disconnected and did miserably and had no fun doing it.


I pretty much figured what you guys have said for the most part, i like the feedback i get with no powersteering when taking speed into a turn, its nice. I would like to know more about this Shadow steering gear though!

Thanks to you as well man! Very Happy
_________________
KEEDY/"KEEDERS"/"KUTTER"


::95 Sprt Coupe::

::04 Gray Neon SXT::
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message Send e-mail Visit poster's website AIM Address
Doug95neon
1GN Registrant


Age: 39
Joined: 30 May 2009
Posts: 68
Location: Morrisville, NC


PostPosted: Fri Jun 05, 2009 5:12 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

You'll need to research that shadow stuff on your own. Me providing information works one of two ways. Either I know too much and go in to way too much detail or I only know enough to tease you and can't be of much use. This situation... I'm just teasing you.

The accidental loss of assist last year was interesting. Really brought me closer to being one with the tires and I felt sorry for them cause I was working them hard.
_________________
I stayed at a Holiday Inn Express last night, I HAVE to be right.

My Project thread: Here
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message  
bone-yard-racing
1GN Registrant


Age: 27
Joined: 13 Feb 2007
Posts: 261
Location: York PA


PostPosted: Fri Jun 05, 2009 7:05 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I never missed PS on the auto-x course I am an overdriver and it made me slow down.
_________________
1996 Dodge Neon sdn: Eugene ACR clone magnifyed... Blown up waiting on a 2.4
1995 Plymouth Sport sdn: Harold DOHC swap FSP/TTE/PTE #327
2004 neon R/T: Bolt on DD


www.boneyardracing.com
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message  
keeders08
Suspension Nut!!
1GN Registrant


Age: 30
Joined: 15 Jun 2008
Posts: 515
Location: Pittsburgh Area(Connellsville), Pa

1995 Dodge Neon Sport

PostPosted: Fri Jun 05, 2009 11:32 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

bone-yard-racing wrote:
I never missed PS on the auto-x course I am an overdriver and it made me slow down.


So ur sayin' p/s slowed you down right?

I'm def. going to look into the shadow steering gear. Anyone have an idea on how painful the gear swap could be? difficulty is no issue as i plunge into things im unconfident about with beer and cigs.. lmao (trust me i know that isn't the greatest idea)

Anyway, how bout I broke off a torx bit(i think thats what its called) in the hole to adjust idle on the TB.. Shocked

wtf i do these things..? i wouldnt know, i swear the beer was not involved in this one.
_________________
KEEDY/"KEEDERS"/"KUTTER"


::95 Sprt Coupe::

::04 Gray Neon SXT::
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message Send e-mail Visit poster's website AIM Address
bone-yard-racing
1GN Registrant


Age: 27
Joined: 13 Feb 2007
Posts: 261
Location: York PA


PostPosted: Mon Jun 08, 2009 11:14 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

First of all until the number of broken T20 bits in your tool box is more than 20 you arent a proper neon-er or maybe you buy TBs Laughing

With no P/S you have to work a lot harder to turn the car therefore my steering inputs became much slower and more gentle that is the way to more speed. My car was set up to be unstable(dedicated auto-x car that I drove on the street) so it took a fraction of the steering input an occasional auto-x/street car will. The shadow rack will get you the steering speed no problem. The easiest way to do the rack would be with the engine out of the car or you could drop the K-frame
_________________
1996 Dodge Neon sdn: Eugene ACR clone magnifyed... Blown up waiting on a 2.4
1995 Plymouth Sport sdn: Harold DOHC swap FSP/TTE/PTE #327
2004 neon R/T: Bolt on DD


www.boneyardracing.com
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message  
keeders08
Suspension Nut!!
1GN Registrant


Age: 30
Joined: 15 Jun 2008
Posts: 515
Location: Pittsburgh Area(Connellsville), Pa

1995 Dodge Neon Sport

PostPosted: Mon Jun 08, 2009 11:16 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

bone-yard-racing wrote:
First of all until the number of broken T20 bits in your tool box is more than 20 you arent a proper neon-er or maybe you buy TBs Laughing

With no P/S you have to work a lot harder to turn the car therefore my steering inputs became much slower and more gentle that is the way to more speed. My car was set up to be unstable(dedicated auto-x car that I drove on the street) so it took a fraction of the steering input an occasional auto-x/street car will. The shadow rack will get you the steering speed no problem. The easiest way to do the rack would be with the engine out of the car or you could drop the K-frame


Good deal, i'll have to look into the shadow steering gear then!

and as for the T20 bits, i broke 2 more trying to adjust my idle..Sad
_________________
KEEDY/"KEEDERS"/"KUTTER"


::95 Sprt Coupe::

::04 Gray Neon SXT::


Last edited by keeders08 on Tue Jun 09, 2009 11:47 pm; edited 1 time in total
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message Send e-mail Visit poster's website AIM Address
bone-yard-racing
1GN Registrant


Age: 27
Joined: 13 Feb 2007
Posts: 261
Location: York PA


PostPosted: Tue Jun 09, 2009 8:32 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Heat the TB up with a soldering iron and use the T-handle torx drivers from harbor freight they seem to hold up the best for me
_________________
1996 Dodge Neon sdn: Eugene ACR clone magnifyed... Blown up waiting on a 2.4
1995 Plymouth Sport sdn: Harold DOHC swap FSP/TTE/PTE #327
2004 neon R/T: Bolt on DD


www.boneyardracing.com
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message  
keeders08
Suspension Nut!!
1GN Registrant


Age: 30
Joined: 15 Jun 2008
Posts: 515
Location: Pittsburgh Area(Connellsville), Pa

1995 Dodge Neon Sport

PostPosted: Tue Jun 09, 2009 11:46 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

bone-yard-racing wrote:
Heat the TB up with a soldering iron and use the T-handle torx drivers from harbor freight they seem to hold up the best for me


Harbor does have good stuff. lol Very Happy

Anybody with a comment on the difficulty of swapping to a Shadow steering gear? Very Happy
_________________
KEEDY/"KEEDERS"/"KUTTER"


::95 Sprt Coupe::

::04 Gray Neon SXT::
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message Send e-mail Visit poster's website AIM Address
bone-yard-racing
1GN Registrant


Age: 27
Joined: 13 Feb 2007
Posts: 261
Location: York PA


PostPosted: Wed Jun 10, 2009 4:30 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

big .org write up:
http://forums.neons.org/viewtopic.php?f=48&t=227583

The manual says you just have to drop the k-frame enough to get the steering rack clamp bolts out and I guess you can pull it out from there. It really doesnt look too hard.
_________________
1996 Dodge Neon sdn: Eugene ACR clone magnifyed... Blown up waiting on a 2.4
1995 Plymouth Sport sdn: Harold DOHC swap FSP/TTE/PTE #327
2004 neon R/T: Bolt on DD


www.boneyardracing.com
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message  
keeders08
Suspension Nut!!
1GN Registrant


Age: 30
Joined: 15 Jun 2008
Posts: 515
Location: Pittsburgh Area(Connellsville), Pa

1995 Dodge Neon Sport

PostPosted: Wed Jun 10, 2009 10:22 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

bone-yard-racing wrote:
big .org write up:
http://forums.neons.org/viewtopic.php?f=48&t=227583

The manual says you just have to drop the k-frame enough to get the steering rack clamp bolts out and I guess you can pull it out from there. It really doesnt look too hard.


Ok that was pretty good, but i wonder if ne-one has a more detailed write up with all the adjustments needed and how to figure out what ratio you already have...

For example, he says he has a highline and it had 18:1...
I'd like find out what each 1st Gen has and post it up on here with the ratios of each.

I assume that the ACR and possibly the Sport, which i have, have a more responsive steering gear..?

Once I do this swap and get all the info, i'll just post the whole thing up myself here on 1gn if nothing comes up before then.

OOH.. and its said in that .org post that Shadow gear makes it harder to turn...? lol wtf are we getting into now.. jeeezus
_________________
KEEDY/"KEEDERS"/"KUTTER"


::95 Sprt Coupe::

::04 Gray Neon SXT::
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message Send e-mail Visit poster's website AIM Address
bone-yard-racing
1GN Registrant


Age: 27
Joined: 13 Feb 2007
Posts: 261
Location: York PA


PostPosted: Sun Jun 14, 2009 5:43 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Manual rack is 22:1
Sport/Highline/Expresso/Base rack is 18:1
acr/RT rack is 16:1
_________________
1996 Dodge Neon sdn: Eugene ACR clone magnifyed... Blown up waiting on a 2.4
1995 Plymouth Sport sdn: Harold DOHC swap FSP/TTE/PTE #327
2004 neon R/T: Bolt on DD


www.boneyardracing.com
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message  
Display posts from previous:   
Post new topic   Reply to topic    1GN.ORG Forum Index -> AutoX / Road Course All times are GMT - 8 Hours
Goto page 1, 2  Next
Page 1 of 2

 
Jump to:  
You cannot post new topics in this forum
You cannot reply to topics in this forum
You cannot edit your posts in this forum
You cannot delete your posts in this forum
You cannot vote in polls in this forum



smartDark Style by Smartor
Powered by p h p B B © 2001 , 2005 p h p B B Group
Protected by Anti-Spam ACP
1GN.org