If you've got your engine apart for a rebuild

This is the place to ask questions about your engine components like cams, valves, pistons? just anything that is generally "engine" specific.
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roysneon
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If you've got your engine apart for a rebuild

Post by roysneon » Tue Jan 27, 2009 9:32 am

This is a neat little trick that some people may not know about or may overlook.

In the coolant passage right before the waterpump there is some fairly nasty casting flash that can very easily be ground down with a dremel or similar rotary tool. Wheather or not this will improve the flow of coolant thruogh the system and improve cooling of the engine, I'm not sure, but for how long it takes, why wouldn't you?

Sorry, I didn't snap any before pics, but this will show you the area that I'm referring to and how mine looked afterword

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Just trying to add to the general knowledge base.
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Doug95neon
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Post by Doug95neon » Sun May 31, 2009 10:39 am

I don't remember what they looked like before grinding but I have a couple of blocks at home I can snap a before picture for comparison.

As for it's usefulness, I don't know. Personally I wouldn't do it because I'm lazy and don't know what the benefit would be.

Some questions that come to mind would be the loss of metal (minute as it may be) which would have otherwise absorbed a small amount of heat. Take it away and now the rest of the block has to absorb it. It's trivial I think but that's one reason to justify my laziness.

The next would be me wondering if that piece of metal some how changed the manor in which the coolant flowed. Was it there to reduce cavitation? Increase some sort of flow pattern? I don't know the answers but those are just things that come to mind.

Overall I don't think you've damaged anything nor created a problem. Really everything that comes up is going to be theory anyways unless someone's already tried it and can provide first hand feedback.
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Post by roysneon » Sun May 31, 2009 12:54 pm

I can't see it increasing cavitation, as I would think it would increase flow to the pump.

It seems to be pretty incosistent between blocks, so it's my assumption that it's just casting flash that Chrysler didn't feel the need to clean up before slapping the pump on and sending them out.
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Post by charger440neon2.0l » Mon Jun 01, 2009 2:53 am

its just casting flash where the mold parting line was. for what ever reason chrysler didn't remove it at the factory. Probably cost more to do so than leave it. I think it helps increase flow. increasing cavitation and directing flow is the headgaskets jobs. Thats a write up I don't think anyone has ever addressed but it is a good/needed one.

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Post by Doug95neon » Mon Jun 01, 2009 7:03 am

Cavitation is not something that's desirable. It contributes if not is the cause of electrolosys which as we know is bad.

We can go in to that in another thread if need be but I don't think this mod is going to play a part in creating any kind of problem.
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Post by roysneon » Tue Jun 02, 2009 1:59 pm

Well how about this?

The two ovals circled in red are supposed to line up. That's the oil pickup from the pickup tube to the pump. Try to tell me that at high rpms the way the bedplate and block passages don't line up won't restrict oil flow to the pump. The pump is then trying to suck as hard as it can to get oil through this restriction, and that can't help the engine operate efficiently, or help power in hightly modified high rpm engines.

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Block on left, bedplate on right.
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Post by Doug95neon » Tue Jun 02, 2009 3:44 pm

Interesting. I've yet to actually build a block though I've been all through the heads before. Kinda makes me want to port it but there is the issue of all that metal shavings especially in an oil passage. Coolant passage grinding... whoop-d-doo. Oil? Kinda makes me concerned.

What I want to know is where can I find those o-rings between the bedplate and rest of the block? I've got a 00-01 block sitting on the stand right now but when I took it apart I realized most of the rebuild kits didn't come with that (or just didn't show it in pictures).
D
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Post by Ghost Neon » Tue Jun 02, 2009 7:08 pm

A good lesson in planned obsolescence in automotive manufacturing.

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Post by roysneon » Tue Jun 02, 2009 9:55 pm

Doug95neon wrote: Kinda makes me want to port it but there is the issue of all that metal shavings especially in an oil passage. Coolant passage grinding... whoop-d-doo. Oil? Kinda makes me concerned.

What I want to know is where can I find those o-rings between the bedplate and rest of the block? I've got a 00-01 block sitting on the stand right now but when I took it apart I realized most of the rebuild kits didn't come with that (or just didn't show it in pictures).
D


I would imagine that any metal shavings could be cleaned up if the engine is out of the car.

I also wondered about the "o" rings. I was going to start removing them, but then wondered if it would be better to leave them alone for now for fear of ruining them upon removal.

Ghost Neon wrote:A good lesson in planned obsolescence in automotive manufacturing.


Sadly, that's the reality we're all now facing with this platform.
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Post by Doug95neon » Wed Jun 03, 2009 7:02 am

I looked last night, my 00-01 block does have that same casting there. Removing it is not high on my list of things to do though. Have all the blocks you've seen had that or could it have been plant specific?

I haven't checked that oil passage yet.
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Post by roysneon » Wed Jun 03, 2009 8:42 am

Doug95neon wrote:I looked last night, my 00-01 block does have that same casting there. Removing it is not high on my list of things to do though. Have all the blocks you've seen had that or could it have been plant specific?

I haven't checked that oil passage yet.


Yep, they've all been there. I never really had a problem per se with the cooling systems, or with ruining water pumps, so how important the coolant passage smoothing is is more than likely negligable.

However, I find myself wondering how many broken rods/oil pumps/spun bearings, etc. could have been atributed to improper oil flow to and through the pump. These engines/pumps seem to have no problem creating oil pressure, but it's getting that oil back to the pump to avoid cavitation that seems to be the trick.
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Post by charger440neon2.0l » Wed Jun 03, 2009 1:46 pm

I think my sarcasm was overlooked on my headgasket remark. Oh well it was poorly written. My point was just about my opinion was the flash wasn't there to specially direct flow.

Thats amazing the ovals are so screwed up on your engine. I cant say I ever paid any attention to them. I've run a reamer down the oil passage across the back of the block and its amazing how much material you get outta there. I just looked at an engine thats taken apart in my garage and the ovals on my bedplate are more rounded than oval and they match up decently. The block is out of a 95' built in Belvedere, is there anyway to check for an engine plant code on the block or were they all made in the same foundry.

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Post by Doug95neon » Fri Jun 05, 2009 11:54 am

I got two oddball gaskets from the dealer today. One is supposed to be that bedplate o-ring that's circled in the pics above and the other is supposed to be for the oil filter adapter to block. In that order p/n's are 6506925AA and it's pink/purple like some of the pick-up tube rings but bigger. The other is 4777425 and is about the size of the cam sensor seal only twice as thick.

When I get a chance (early next week maybe) I'll post up picks next to the block to confirm.

You're looking less than $15.00 bucks retail and it's well worth replacing given the expense of a motor or even just labor to go back in. Mine cost me about $5.50 with a discount.
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Post by Ghost Neon » Tue Jun 30, 2009 8:08 pm

Image

This is my 99 2.4L. Not much of an obstruction, but I'll smooth it out anyhow.

What year 2.4L do you have roy? The oil hole in the block and bearin plate match for the 99.

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Post by roysneon » Wed Jul 01, 2009 1:39 am

Sorry if I misled or confused anybody, but my engines are/have been all 2.0's.

The oil drain in the head should be chamfered to help the oil get back down to the crankcase also in both engines.
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